Friday, July 25, 2008

Batman's stem cells

In the new Dark Knight movie, we see a theme revisited that we have seen a few times already with Michael Keaton, and if you're a comic-book reader, countless times before that. Vengeance is the Lord's.

It's certainly not stated that way by the Batman. His refusal to terminate a homicidal maniac like the Joker is always framed as a moral line that he refuses to cross, one that would "make him like his enemies" and so cannot be touched. The issue is not presented as a right/wrong decision concerning the Joker... in a way, it's almost assumed that it would be alright for him to be killed. It's just presented as the wrong move for the Batman, one that would have consequences for him that would not justify the action.

But if WERE framed as a question of whether the Batman has the right to play judge and jury, whether he has the right to hold the Joker's life in his hands and decide what will happen to him... that's the question I think about today.

I bring it up because I've been thinking lately about my feelings on stem cell research, and by extension, the death penalty. How are the two related? Let me explain.

I'm going to assume that my readers are familiar with the basic science of embryonic stem cell research. Not because you're scientists like me, but because it's been a hot issue for a few years now and it would be hard for you to have escaped a story about it somewhere. It's been somewhat stamped down since Bush II discontinued the use of federal money for its research, which has severely hindered its progress. But the issue is sure to resurface, and will most definitely come up if Barack Obama is our next president. He will likely allow federal funding on the research once again.

What little data we have from embryonic stem cell injections into living beings, that performed on rats and rabbits, shows that it is actually working. The stem cells are replicating whatever adult cells are needed in the body, and issues like blindness and spinal injuries are being healed. There is a very real case to be made that this treatment can be successful in all manner of diseases, including terminal ones like MS, Parkinson's, and the big one, cancer. No human treatments for any of these diseases has been tried yet because the money isn't there for the testing.

Back to the Batman. Here's my question, and I want to look at it from the Christian viewpoint. By allowing the Joker to live, and by allowing the Lord's vengeance to be the only factor in the equation of when he lives or dies, the Batman makes a choice. He chooses NOT to be the one to apply that type of justice. But in a backwards way, doesn't he make that choice by also allowing the Joker to live? Isn't he then making a decision on lives that will be affected later, that the Joker will interfere with?

I'm generalizing the Christian's perspective here, because everyone of course has their opinion, but we believe that every life is valuable, and so the use of embryonic stem cells, the harvesting of those cells from a human embryo, violates that embryo's life. Regardless of whether that embryo was going to develop into a human being (because most of them aren't), we refuse to play the decision-maker on what happens with that life.

But while it is admittedly much more indirect, do we not also pronounce a decision on many of our fellow fully-grown human beings, those who have terminal diseases that could be cured with stem cells? At it's most simple presentation, we make a decision between lives that are not yet and may never be, and ones that have already developed, and matured, and loved, and experienced, and have so much yet to do.

I was asked to be a part of a delegation last year that was trying to raise more money, and especially voter support, for this type of research. Specifically, I was asked if I would like to be a part of a group that met with churches and church leaders to discuss their feelings on it. The group wanted some persons of faith on both sides of the table so that they might be able to better communicate. I declined, for two reasons. One, I'm not sure how good I would be at trying to convince someone to reverse their moral beliefs for political purposes. But two, I wasn't absolutely sure what I thought about it. I still don't. These are just the questions that ran through my head this morning, and now I put them to you, the Taproom readers.

What do you think?

9 comments:

Ryan said...

I gotta say... I've read a lot of Batman and I've never picked up on a Vengeance is the Lord's theme. I see it as Batman is just truly Lawful Good: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/1/14/Alignment8.jpg

Not a theme about the Lord, but it's Batman's character. I dunno... Calling all Lawful Good fictional characters demonstrating the desire to strictly follow the law and not kill as a theme of "Vengeance is the Lord's" is stretching it.

But anyway... Stem cells.

Taking it to the point of it not even being OK to use embryonic stem cells from an embryo known to not be able to develop... wouldn't you then also have to condemn birth control pills?

If you must preserve all life, even the very beginnings of life that has no chance of developing, then it seems that using hormones for birth control is right out? Hormonal birth control prevents implantation, not fertilization.

For me... I don't see anything wrong with human embryonic stem cell research or birth control.

The benefits of both out weigh the negatives of not having them.

I'm not sure if a Christian can claim the same stance... but if Christians can be OK with birth control it seems to me that it'd be simple to convince them that some kinds of embryonic stem cell harvesting is OK too.

Commish said...

You're absolutely right, Batman doesn't call upon the Lord to avenge criminals, or count on any divine intervention for justice. Maybe I wrote that a little vaguely... I was just saying that many Christians also follow the same principle (we shouldn't kill criminals), while citing different reasons for it.

You draw an interesting analogy. I wonder if Bush II is ready to come out against some forms of birth control?

Brandon Caroland said...

Letting people live isn't assuming the Lord's role in the cycle of life. Letting the Joker live isn't assuming power of judgment. It is actually a form of acknowledging that the choice isn't his. The death penalty in the Old Covenant was not acting as the Lord either. It was obedience. Letting people live is also obedience. It is submission to the inherent laws of "nature/God". I think the best discussion on stem-cell research was on the episode of south park that featured Christopher Reeves.

By killing the joker, batman would be breaking the inherent, instinctive laws that mankind knows to be true.

It also violates his personal code of conduct that he uses to justify his erratic behavior.

Not only that, it also is imposed guilt from the death of his parents, to not become like the criminals that offed his parents.

He needs that code for his own self-righteousness. His own justification for existence. Without the code, he IS the same as the people he hates.

Stem cell research should happen. The more dead babies the better. I think they should offer people money for their placenta and embryonic fluids the way that they do for plasma. Maybe some of these teenagers in Detroit could start generating some income rather than just collecting from state and federal aid for being pregnant all the time.

Bristol Crowne said...

I'm not quite sure I'm reading Ryan correctly even though I read it several times but I believe that certain hormonal birth control pills prevent ovulation, not just implantation. Thus, no fertilization. Ben checked on this for me when I started birth control. I know that's a little off topic.

The Joker wants us to believe that we are all willing to kill when it benefits us, thus making us just like him. Not only does Batman prove him wrong but so does everyone on the two boats (I hope I didn't just spoil the movie for someone).

Ryan said...

I read it on the internet so it must be true. ;)

No, honestly, I was just going by what Jillian told me. I'm sure I could be entirely wrong.

Looks like they do prevent ovulation

But if you do a google search for birth control and controversy, you find stuff like this, which says that it doesn't always work. So a backup method of preventing implantation provides the birth control in those rare cases.

Jillian said...

I think all birth controls work as the first line of defense being preventing ovulation, which depending on the hormone levels, works quite well for most birth control pills, it has a second line of defense in making the uterine lining inhospitable to an egg, preventing the egg from attaching and implanting. The low estrogen type pills like loestrin or whatever it's called and it's generics and derivatives are more likely to not prevent ovulation, and then the minipill is even worse, but as far as I know they only prescribe the minipill to breastfeeding women, cause it's not very effective in any other population... So that second line of defense of making the uterus non hospitable isn't that effective if a just progestin pill only works 80% of the time...I think the chances of getting pregnant without using birth control at all are only 50% or 60% on any given month if you aren't actively trying to conceive...I'm not 100% sure on that, it's been a long time before I read anything on how to conceive a baby.

I guess if there is a such thing as an estrogen only pill, it may only prevent ovulation, but I really don't know if that exists or if that would be true. I'm just thinking that if progestin only pills only make it so an egg can't implant, than perhaps estrogen only would only make it so you don't ovulate, just a guess.

Ohh, to find out if your birth control does this, you just have to read the insert that comes with it...

This is what the last pill I was on says...

Norethindrone acetate - ethinyl estradiol is an estrogen and progestin combination pill used for the prevention of pregnancy. It is a birth control pill that works by preventing ovulation (the release of an egg from an ovary) and causing changes in the mucus of the cervix which make it difficult for sperm to penetrate and for an egg to implant. It may also be taken to regulate the menstrual cycle.

Anyway...I have no problem with birth control even though it works that way... having a virus can cause your cervical mucus to change enough to prevent implantation... but I guess I could see why other people would have an issue with it, ie, the catholic church.

Travis needs me...so no comments on batman...

Bristol Crowne said...

Something interesting I found in wikipedia under "Beginning of pregnancy controversy":

"A related application of the principle of double effect is breastfeeding. Breastfeeding greatly suppresses ovulation, but eventually an ovum is released. Luteal phase defect, caused by breastfeeding, makes the uterine lining hostile to implantation and as such may prevent implantation after fertilization.[18] Some pro-choice groups have expressed concern that the movement to recognize hormonal contraceptives as abortifacient will also cause breastfeeding to be considered an abortion method."

Jillian said...

ooo, fun, breastfeeding is an abortion...I could see that, of course, then colds are abortions too. But, it wouldn't shock me if someone decided it was.

One day when I was just barely pregnant with Janelle we had some random baptist women knock on our door. They were going around telling people about the dangers of a d&c... One of the main things they wanted to do was put an end to d&c's after a fetus has already died. Cause by "aborting", in their terms, an already dead fetus you are not allowing for a miracle. I was seriously baffled and had no clue what to say to that...just, wow... All I could see happening from their "ministry" is causing women who have had a miscarriage recently even more pain, or convincing a woman to not have a d&c, putting her at risk for serious infections. Neither seem like a good outcome.

Anyway, we conceived while breastfeeding, hence Janelle and Kincaid are 18 months apart...but I do know a lot of people who haven't been able to, so it does make sense.

For the record, I am very against actual abortions, but birth control, IUD's, morning after pills, none of that bothers me...I guess I don't consider a fertilized egg a baby, I think implantation needs to happen before you are pregnant.

Brandon Caroland said...

Can I just take a second to say how nice it is to hear from Ryan and Jillian? No? My bad.